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11 May 2011 @ 01:08 pm
Part 2 of how I fell to the dark side  
aside: "Bubble bloodbath" is quite possibly the best term EVAR. This was after FOX canceled everything not already nailed down yesterday. BUBBLE BLOOD BATH. LULZ

I also watched the "Forest of the Dead" (part 2 of River's intro).

I suspect it probably it's even more hella tragic in hindsight than it was the first time around. Then, it could've only been a mystery, but now? All of you, who watched in proper order, you're the Doctor, watching this stranger save you and you'll get to know her better. But I'm River, not knowing the ending only the middle(well, that's a lie, I *knew* what happened in the ep. y'all are not THAT slick with the SPOILERS, but still, I managed to forget). So man, it hurt to see now that I know and love her.

However, I have a timey-wimey thing in my head. I realize, btw, that I'm saying nothing new here. I'm just trying to work it out.

Okay, so Ten/Eleven will have known all along what will happen, and will at some future point know when because he takes her to say goodbye. In this ep, Ten meets her for the first time, and River is at the very end of their relationship, obv since she's dying. And "her" Doctor doesn't show up to her message because he knows that his past-self will be there. His future self sends the screwdriver with her because he knows that's how he saved her a bit of her.

I hate paradoxes. BECAUSE -- YO BAD SELF FUTURE DOCTOR, you know everything about the library. YOU CAN DO MORE to stop or fix it. I appreciate that you prevented River from totally ceasing to exist, which is good, but she's STILL DEAD. If TIME CAN BE RE-WRITTEN, THEN DO IT.


Of course, this works in opposite as well, since River obviously knew about both the events of Impossible Astronaut as well as presumably the change from Ten to Eleven. ANd I know from 'Vincent' that some things apparently ARE immutable, but, that doesn't mean you don't frakkin TRY.

Sorry, me and my stubborn humanity will be over here fuming about how the universe is unfair and stomping my foot. A LOT.


But okay, I realize now that the reason Tennant wasn't doing it for me in the first ep was that Ten was just too crazed and not badass. I'm quite a bit more down with him now, after Forest of the Dead, when he showed a lot more range and was a hardcore badass. So there's that. Crazed is a fun attribute, but there needs more steel under there. So far, it seems like Matt Smith makes Eleven more... open in his dangerousness, whereas Ten keeps it more in his pocket and pulls it out when necessary. In retrospect that factor is probably why I fell off the train during Nine -- the ratio of Silly to Badass was tilted the wrong way for me. It's kind of passe to like the heroes, but I just don't find clownishness all that appealing. (and I'm sure at least one of you is thinking - 'WTF? Nine wasn't like that at all'. And maybe you'd be right, but that's the impression I have in my head of the half-dozen eps I saw).

Also. I still can't believe Matt Smith is ONLY 28. I know it, I read it, and I still can't believe it. It's both amusing and yet so true when River tells Ten that he's so young in the Library.
The Proverbial Bull in a China Shop...sabaceanbabe on May 11th, 2011 08:30 pm (UTC)
Matt Smith is just a baby! ;) And Alex Kingston is, apparently, only a year older than me. WHICH MAKES RIVER/ELEVEN EVEN MORE EPIC, SOMEHOW.
lizardbeth: DW  - Eleven/Riverlizardbeth_j on May 11th, 2011 09:01 pm (UTC)
(all our under-28 friends are, like, THANKS LIZ. hee)

BUT yes, it is epic. Esp when you consider HOW MUCH they had to keep from each other, once they were in the middle section and knew how it ended on both sides. :( :( THAT WOULD SUCK. Tho I'm still dubious that Eleven's death won't end up in a diff timeline.

The Proverbial Bull in a China Shop...: River/Elevensabaceanbabe on May 11th, 2011 09:04 pm (UTC)
I think the timelines have been frakked to hell so that just about everything happening this season is suspect, at least in the details, if not the broad strokes.

And I couldn't be more happy about it. :D
Nicole Anell: eleventynicole_anell on May 11th, 2011 09:13 pm (UTC)
all our under-28 friends are, like, THANKS LIZ.
klaetificat on May 11th, 2011 08:41 pm (UTC)
I was originally very skeptical when the producers said that they were floored by a 28-year-old, but after the first few episodes I totally got why they threw their idea of an older Doctor out the door when Matt walked through. :)
klaetificat on May 11th, 2011 08:43 pm (UTC)
Also, the one rule I think the Whoniverse has is that the Doctor can't go back on his own timeline. What's happened has happened and he has to live with it.
lizardbeth: DW - Eleven-Amylizardbeth_j on May 11th, 2011 09:13 pm (UTC)
that's why I hate paradoxes, because he NEVER DECIDES to send her to the library with only the screwdriver. He could have sent a ginormous memory stick, so it wouldn't kill her, but he sends the screwdriver because he will know that's what he did. and he's not supposed to try to change it.


and I remember all the skepticism at large with the casting. People shut up pretty quickly. lol
klaetificat on May 11th, 2011 09:17 pm (UTC)
I KNOW. Have you seen "Waters of Mars?" That explains the issue a little more clearly, Whoniverse-style.

They do, don't they? The one thing I never get with fandom is that producers are in the know and that they generally know what they're doing. 80% of the time something happens, the fans shut up. (Starbuck, the Doctor, etc., etc.)
lizardbeth: DW - Eleven-Amylizardbeth_j on May 11th, 2011 09:42 pm (UTC)
oh yes, fandom jumping to conclusions is SO maddening. A lot of it is just resistance to change which I get, but at least give it a chance before writing it off, jeez.
Frances: DW - Ten - crazy Ten in a hatgoldy_dollar on May 11th, 2011 09:28 pm (UTC)
Ten is my favourite! <33 I hope you'll watch some of his other episodes. :)
lizardbeth: Elena-Stefanlizardbeth_j on May 11th, 2011 11:38 pm (UTC)
oh, I'll get to them all eventually, but I'm kinda backwards about it all.:)

TOMORROW. ACK. Stefan's going to do something heroic and nutty isn't he? *deep breaths*

Havoc: amy pond's life isn't realhavocthecat on May 12th, 2011 12:52 am (UTC)
I firmly maintain that when the Doctor rebooted the unvierse and Amy remembered everyone back into existence post-The Big Bang, River didn't die in the library. And it was a post-Library, post-Big Bang River that gave Amy her journal so she could remember the Doctor back into existence.

That's totally my story and I'm sticking to it. RETCON FTW.
lizardbeth: DW  - Eleven/Riverlizardbeth_j on May 12th, 2011 01:03 am (UTC)
I would like to subscribe to this theory! I refuse to believe they have nothing but tragedy for them (delicious ly angsty though it is)
Havochavocthecat on May 12th, 2011 01:10 am (UTC)
I refuse to believe in tragedy and delicious angst when time can be rewritten! Especially as they can have all new delicious angst without CERTAIN DEATH in the library and in Utah.
lizardbeth: DW  - Eleven/Riverlizardbeth_j on May 12th, 2011 03:13 am (UTC)
I'm pretty sure Utah will be undone in some way - that seems an obvious tie with Amy's arc. But would Mofffatt go all the way and undo the library too? I can see where on an meta level he might not be comfortable with that, since it was before he took the reins.

In any case, it should be and will be in my head, if nowhere else! :